Language Learning Mindset Shifts
March 7, 2023
This week, I interviewed mindfulness and mindset coach, Louise Fitzgerald, about common mindset shifts that can help you to learn French.
To check out our entire interview, head over to Instagram.
Here’s the transcript where you can access everything we talked about concerning language learning motivation and improving you French learning!
Natalie Amgott:
If you've ever started to learn French and you've gotten stuck at any level, whether you're a beginner, your intermediate, and you felt like you're stuck, we're going to tackle that a little bit today. So I am speaking in English because regardless of the language that you're learning, I think this will be useful to us all.
Today I’ll be speaking with mindfulness, meditation, and spirituality coach Louise Fitzgerald. And she's joining us from all the way from Australia. I know most of us are over my followers, at least in North America. So it's going to be really exciting to get her perspective on language learning and what to do when we feel stuck in particular. Good morning, Louise. Hi.
Louise Fitzgerald.
Hi everyone. Thank you for having me.
Natalie Amgott
I'm so happy to have you. We have a big evening group here of folks. I think a lot of folks might be in the US or Canada as well as hopefully we have some folks over in Australia too today.
Louise Fitzgerald:
Yes, I wondering where everyone is because it's sunny here in Sydney, Australia.
Natalie Amgott:
Could you introduce yourself a little bit? And then we'll dive into some of the questions we've been getting.
Louise Fitzgerald.
Thank you. So I'm a friend of Natalie's and we're sort of like working together at the moment. I'm so excited to help people because the work that I do with people is sort of spiritual life coaching, intuitive work and mindset coaching and I know that that's some of the things we're going to cover today. When we're learning something new, there's a lot of sort of mindset stuff that people struggle with. So yeah, I'm excited to hopefully share what people have questions about.
Natalie:
And for anybody who doesn't know I'm Dr. Natalie Amgott, and I am the owner of Elevate French. I do French classes for adults.
We wanted to put this live on because I get a lot of questions from you all, especially my students currently enrolled about, you know, what can I do when I have a bad day after having a lot of good days with my French learning?
So we're going to dive into a lot of these questions. I've been saving the questions that I'm getting from folks, and I'll give Louise a chance to respond. I might add live a little bit too, with these kinds of common questions that I get my inbox every week.
The first question I get is:
“I feel like some days my French is great. And other days it's really hard for me to even string a sentence together. Is this normal, and what should I do?”
What do you think, Louise?
Louise Fitzgerald:
That’s such a great question. I think this is something so common that we experience when we're learning something new or even just in our day-to-day lives.
So I think sometimes we can expect to be perfect and great and everything going well, all the time. But there's a couple of things that can happen, right? We might fight with our partner or we might not have slept well or we might not be eating well. And so we're not going to be like 100% all the time. So I think acknowledging that that is absolutely normal, whether you're learning language or doing anything in life.
But the other kind of cool thing that I think is happening here is that sometimes the output is not what we want. So if we're trying to learn a new language here, sometimes what's happening is outwardly it might seem like you're going backwards or it's not going well, but your brain is actually processing in the background. So it might not seem like things are going well. But I think what you'll notice is then you have a big kind of boost after that.
So the two takeaways is don't expect yourself to be perfect every day. And then if you're feeling kind of a little bit unmotivated by that remember that there's probably a big jump about to happen because your brain’s processing.
But Natalie, I'm sure you've got some sort of actual language input on that too.
Natalie Amgott
Yes, a lot of what you said Louise is totally related. Sometimes it just takes your brain some time to process what you're learning. If you're learning a lot of things at once, if even within your French class or your self-paced French learning, it can seem like you're not making progress.
So I know right now, I just taught my intermediate French class. My students are dealing with relative pronouns which are things in English that are like “that,” “who,” “which” that you put in the middle of a sentence. And they've been seeing these for a few weeks. And I think that that can feel discouraging.
One of the students said in class, “Oh, I feel like I can use these when I see the exercises, but using them in a sentence aloud when I'm speaking conversationally just isn't something that I feel confident at yet.”
And it's good to be able to recognize, okay, you can use this in a sentence. You know, how it works. When you're reading, you know how it works. Then compare and think back. Okay, three weeks ago, three months ago did you feel the same way and recognize that progress? So really recognizing even if you feeling stuck, you have made progress? To some extent, some from you know, three months ago, six months ago, and I'll talk a little bit more about this later, but keeping like a little language learning journal, I think can be really useful to flip back and see, “Oh, I am making progress!”
Louise Fitzgerald:
Yeah, that’s amazing. And I would agree like outside of language, it's the same thing too. Sometimes we can get so frustrated with where we are right now. And we forget all the things that we've done before.
The other thing I wanted to add is like everyone's so lucky to have you as a teacher just I mean, because you're so amazing and kind. Natalie is the person that you can look at and go, she didn't know how to do this before and then she can do it. You know? She's not a native speaker. So if sometimes you're feeling like I can't do this, remember that you've got your guide that is treading that path and has gone ahead of you. So it is possible.
Natalie Amgott:
Yeah. Thanks, Louise. And I've had my fair share of those moments that I remember very well. “Oh, I can't even make a sentence in French today.”
Usually, it's related, as you said to not getting a good night's sleep or something. So just giving yourself that grace of not being 100% every day is good, too.
That brings me to the next question, which is, I get a question often from my learners that goes something like this:
“Sometimes I lose all my motivation to learn French, like when I come up against a difficult grammar point. What should I do when this happens?”
So in this particular case talking about losing motivation when you're learning. What do you think, Louise?
Louise Fitzgerald:
I mean, it is so similar, isn't it? Because I think that lack of motivation comes when we start to feel stuck. We're not where we want to be. And it's like lack of motivation can kind of come from a lack of momentum, right.
So, again, I think it ties back to we put so much pressure on ourselves and then we start to feel disheartened. We start to slow down, we start to feel stagnant, and then we can't propel ourselves forward.
I would say on those days that you lack motivation, again, acknowledge how far you've come. That's great, because that's going to give you a little bit of a boost, like “Okay, actually, I've done more than I thought I could.”
And then secondly, if you feel called to just do a little bit like don't try and do so much and then you're not feeling good and you're kind of trying to push a rock up the hill. If you feel called to maybe just do five minutes and then the next day, another five minutes until you can kind of get that momentum back.
I think again, it comes back to that, that grace and just letting yourself be in that feeling. Often we have these moments where we don't feel good about ourselves, and we try and resist it as well. And I think sometimes it's okay to say “Yeah, I'm not feeling great. It's okay.” Maybe watch a movie and come back later or come back tomorrow. You know, I think it's just relieving that pressure on ourselves to be 100% all the time!
Natalie Amgott:
Yes! And your brain can feel so saturated if you're learning French. If you feel like you're losing motivation, maybe you could decide that you're going to break everything down into smaller study sessions a day.
I agree with this and language learning research and just learning research in general shows that if you cram, right, you're going to have have good short term memory but not good long term memory.
More frequent, smaller study sessions are good for you and that's also motivating. When you're just having a day that might be rough, five or ten minutes a day is better than nothing.
Or maybe you do something that is fun for you that day. Instead of doing your grammar activities that you were going to do ,maybe you just listen to podcasts you like in French, or you watch a show in Netflix in French with French subtitles, and see how many words you can pick out. So giving yourself that grace, you're still learning in that way can be really, really helpful.
The other thing I wanted to say about this question is there's this theory in language learning and learning in general called Dynamic Systems Theory. Basically, you can picture it as the brain is only so big, we can put a certain amount of things in and it can handle a certain amount at the same time.
So if you're learning French, and you're taking care of an aging parent, and you just had a baby and you're looking for jobs, you you're not going to be 100% at all. That's called Dynamic Systems Theory. It's also called Chaos Complexity Theory. So things are going to be in flux, the more that we are adding into the system.
And with language learning in particular, you're not going to always have a linear process. Sure, in general, over time, you're getting better if you keep learning, but maybe you take some time off and you come back to it. And so it's not going to be a direct arrow up in your in your language learning and it's okay and your motivation won't be a direct arrow up either.
The important thing is not to take a whole break, if you can manage. Take off for a day or two, and then come back. Because as we know with language learning, it's use it or lose it. The longer you take off, the harder it will be to come back and remember what you forgot. So like Louise said, even if it's only five minutes, 10 minutes, reviewing your flashcards or your notes that's going to help you in the long run.
Let's look at the next question. This question deals with isolation. So I've gotten a question that said:
“Learning French on my own feels so isolating. I'm a retired adult, it's hard to learn on my own.”
What suggestions do you have for feeling kind of isolated when learning language learning in particular?
Louise Fitzgerald:
I think that's such a great question. And I think, in part that feeling of loneliness can be when you're not feeling motivated or when you're feeling stuck and you want someone to relate to.
I would say that Natalie's obviously got these group classes and I think from a language perspective, Natalie, you'll be able to explain that better but that's such a good way to learn for the learning aspect. And also for that group mentality so that there's other people like, “Oh, you're struggling with this? Me too!” and you can find someone to be accountable with.
The other thing too is like this, this Instagram. You know, community is another place where you can connect with people. And sometimes when there isn't someone there that's kind of leading the pack in terms of that community, it, you can be the first person to sort of comment on these posts and encourage other people and build that community yourself.
So I think that really there's so many ways now online, to build that community, even if you know like Natalie and I live on the other sides of the planet, but we're able to connect. So you can certainly find these online places now that you can build that community even if you're not sitting in a room with people.
Natalie Amgott:
Yeah, I really like all that you said there Louise. Studies show with language learning and learning in general that if you're self paced, and you're not part of a group, the likelihood that you're going to finish something like a self-paced course or workbook is pretty slim. If you aren't part of a class or you don't have anybody that's keeping you accountable.
I'm guilty of this too. I'll buy a new Italian workbook. I’ll think this is the one that I'm going to get through. I'm going to do a page every day!
But if I don't have somebody to keep me accountable, or I'm not taking a class, I don't do it as well as I'd like. This is normal, first of all, so, as Louise said, seeking out that community if you can take a group class is great.
And if not, take some agency. So Louise and I met in a business class not related to language learning, but we sought each other out to keep each other accountable with the business and show up live on social media as we're doing today. And we've been doing that for about six months now. Having Louise as my accountability partner in that regard, really helps me make sure that I show up. It's a little different than language learning, but it's the same concept.
Because to make sure that I show up, we're checking in with each other and maybe answering some questions where we've experienced similar roadblocks.
Louise Fitzgerald:
That’s exactly what I was gonna say! So yeah, I think it's nice that there's people out there that you can kind of relate to. I was also going to say not necessarily like keeping you accountable, but being part of that community. You send out those weekly newsletters, right, which is something that if someone's we're coming back to that motivation piece, but it's a weekly, like, like little piece that you can do every week or even coming in, you've got little quizzes that people can do and test themselves. So I think that there's so many ways that this person can be part of a community and as a result, enhance the learning.
Natalie Amgott:
Yeah, thank you for bringing that up, Louise, and that's something like if you are on my newsletter, you'll see that every Thursday you get one. At the end of each newsletter, there's either an audio and or an exercise for you to do. I always encourage you to respond to that and let me know if you have questions. I love it when you do. I usually get a few people who respond.
So if you don't feel like you have a community yet, you’ve got this newsletter and you can respond to me. It's nice to know, hopefully, that you can indeed respond to these and we're excited to hear from you.
I know Louise has a really lovely newsletter, too. That keeps me on track and always is helping me rethink the mindsets that I'm having. Not just regarding language learning, but just regarding business and life and work life balance in general, as well.
Let’s take a look at the next question. So this is regarding mistakes. I get a question that says:
“Sometimes I make mistakes when I'm speaking. Those mistakes haunt me. I know I made a mistake and I think about it all day, and I think the other person in the conversation is judging me. What do I do to move beyond this?”
Louise Fitzgerald:
I love this question, because I think we can all relate. I have a funny story about traveling to Spain and I had been working in an office with a couple of people that were from South America. So I was learning Spanish. I was really excited to be in Spain and I didn't know much but I did what I could.
I didn't realize though that some things don't translate the same. And inadvertently, I said something to a couple of older ladies, and my friend later corrected me and said, “Oh, you shouldn't have said that because it was kind of a little bit racy!”
And I still think about it. I think about it now and I can laugh and I hope that eventually, you can get to that point. But it is hard when we have those repetitive thoughts and we're thinking about something over and it's kind of you know, flooding our mind a little bit.
The thing is, we all make mistakes and it's perfectly okay.
There's another thing as well here called negativity bias. So the other thing is, again, to give yourself grace. As humans, we're actually naturally wired to go to the negative. So you might hear these stories of stand up comedians, for example, and they say that they'll be at this show and they're killing it. Let's say it's like Kevin Hart who’s killing it now with a whole big stadium. Everyone's laughing but he can't stop focusing on that one person, you know, in the second row, that's not laughing and they're sitting there with their arms crossed.
So our mind does the same thing you know, we can have all this day of doing these amazing language things and getting everything right but then we'll fixate on the one thing that we got wrong. So it's really great to have that awareness that negativity bias exists, and not to let it overwhelm all the good that that you've done. So again, it's coming back to that earlier thing where we said, take stock of what you've done, take stock of what you've achieved, take stock of what you're getting right. And eventually I know you'll be able to laugh about this mistake, because I can now about my own language.
Natalie Amgott:
Yes, I totally agree. I love the two examples you brought up. The one in Spain, we've all been there with our language learning where we say something that accidentally means something else.
In France, there's a word that means “to lower,” like to lower the temperature, and a very similar word that means something totally different that you probably don't want to say. And so it often comes up where students will say the other one accidentally. And I have made that mistake before and still consciously think about pronouncing the two SS sound instead of the Z sound for “baisser la température.”
And that was a really fun example that you had there about the comedian and the negativity bias.
In language learning research, we talk a lot about the tolerance for ambiguity and this is a concept that's related. So how comfortable are you with the unknown? When you're listening, it's like you're not going to understand every word. And when you're speaking, you're not going to always be able to say exactly the way you would say it in your first language. And how comfortable are you with that?
The more that you can increase your tolerance of ambiguity, the better you're going to be able to communicate and the less fixated you'll be on mistakes. If your personality is a perfectionist, or you're currently feeling like you're a perfectionist, you can overcome this by taking little steps. Of saying, “Okay, I'm gonna just put myself out there, and I'm not going to focus on the mistakes. I'm going to remember that there's a negativity bias, and that whatever I see, the other person's not going to go home and remember the error I made.”
The other language learning science point I want to bring up here is called the affective filter. So the affective filter basically, affect comes from emotion, and a filter, I can think of like a coffee filter.
And this says that we get nervous when we speak a second language basically, which we can all understand. Some people have a higher or a lower one than others. Sometimes this has to do with personality factors, and situational or environmental factors. So if you're learning online, you might actually feel more comfortable than if you're learning in person. And this is a good way to start because if we say the affective filter is high, that means you're nervous and you feel like you can't speak.
In order to learn French we have to speak French, which is going to involve making some mistakes. So we have to lower those nerves enough to be able to put ourselves out there. At first, you're still going to be a little nervous. That's totally fine, normal and even a little bit healthy, just like anybody who does public speaking so they’re going to have some butterflies in their stomach. I think it's important to keep that in mind. It's okay to be nervous, but not too nervous that you're blocking it from speaking, blocking yourself from speaking and allowing yourself to make those mistakes which are going to help you learn.
Louise Fitzgerald:
Those last few points are so interesting, and it's interesting to hear the scientific language side of it because the being comfortable with ambiguity and that that nervousness factor, from a mindfulness teacher perspective, whenever we're in these situations where there's an unknown outcome or there is that anxiety.
I would suggest practicing slowing yourself down, because when we get so anxious, and particularly if you're like, “Okay, it's my turn to practice,” we can get ourselves in such a heightened state that we can't think clearly either. I think, as well as alongside learning the French, it's practicing slowing down, you don't need to rush and then the more you're practicing slowing down, things are actually going to sort of flow better, you'll be able to think clearly.
So something practical is just remember to breathe as well. So that we get into the habit of not being in that heightened level.
Natalie Amgott:
I really love you brought that up the breathing, Louise because when I was learning French, I would go to my professor’s office hours. I had already been learning French for six years. I went to the University of Florida. I would go to their office hours because I knew I wanted to practice speaking, but I was so nervous. I wouldn't breathe and then afterwards, I would wonder, why do I have a headache? Why do I feel so out of breath? Because I was just putting myself into this frenzied state.
So excellent tip about taking a deep breath. One last question we have about language learning mindset.
How do I stop being so hard on myself while learning French?
Louise Fitzgerald
I know that you did also have that other question too, from someone around that leveling up as well. Like, you know, they go from not learning to beginner and then beginner to intermediate and then moving up these levels.
I think even within those levels, it’s that jump that once again we need to take stock of all we have learned. One of the examples I had was I was doing circus aerial fitness. And we had levels where we would move up. You get to the first class ever and you think “Oh my god, how am I ever going to be able to do this?”
And then at the end of it, you're at the top of beginner and you think “I'm so great. This is so great!” Then you move up to the next level. And there's people there that have a little bit ahead of you and all of a sudden you're sort of back at square one again. And I think it's that thing where we can be so hard on ourselves. We feel like we're back in the beginner seat. Whether that's learning like a new aspect or we're moving up levels, and we can keep feeling like I don't know anything. I'm back in the beginner seat. Whereas reminding yourself actually I've learned all of this. And yesterday I learned all of this. So I think being so hard on ourselves and trying to be perfect really inhibits our learning. I know it's not easy to stop doing it. But I think a very practical step is simply just zoom back out and take stock of how far you've come. Take stock of the fact that you've even joined like if you're a beginner and the first day like I don't know how to do this. Just remind yourself you signed up, well done! You know, we need to give ourselves a little bit more encouragement. I think again, we focus more on what we haven't done, as opposed to what we have done. And little by little, I think we can give ourselves a little bit more grace and, and self love and realize that we're doing way better. I actually can't speak another language. I'm impressed that anyone can remotely speak another language. So again, remind yourself that if you can do anything at all, you're you're beating most of the population, you know, so it's amazing stuff!
To learn more about mindfulness and meditation, check out Louise’s Blissful Living course. I’m taking it right now and have learned so much about how to show up more authentically for my dreams!
